CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Strickland
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:53 am
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby Strickland » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:55 pm

As it says, corks or stoppers for 15thC? I have need of a couple for some bottles, specifically a bottle I have from Jim the Pot (I think) and a couple of small wide mouthed jars that are dead useful for keeping a tad of butter in for one thing (keeps the flies off!!) . I have read various things about cork being used in Europe ie Italy but would like a more definitive answer from anyone who is more know-ed please! Ive read also of the stopper and linen type stuff to create a seal.
I'd prefer to be more authentic and have some providence for it than say to anyone who asks 'oh yes well they had cork didnt they' and be dismissive.
Cheers peeps!


Neil

ps and I am still searching!


Its not the years in your life that count, but the life in your years. Nullum est coclear!!!

User avatar
John Waller
Post Knight
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:36 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby John Waller » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:08 pm

Cork was certainly being imported. Below a few examples from the 1480-81 Petty Customs records. I can find 14 records of cork being imported in that period. Exactly what it was used for, not sure. Shoe makers use cork in later periods, not sure about C15th as do fishermen on nets but again I'm not sure about C15th. But cork was around in England.

14. 3 Nov. From the ship of Digo Founs called Sanctus Spiritus of Viana
Said master, A, 2,000 ropes of onions, 42 doz. cork, £6 13s.4d.


101. 19 Mar. From the ship of Peter Fernandus called Maria de Lawe of Viana
Vasco Petrus [S Perus], A, 200 doz. cork, 100,000 oranges, 3 doz. Portuguese skins, £45 6s.8d.


107. 29 Mar. From the ship of Dewgo Vyncenty called Saynt Saveour of Viana
Gonsalvo Fernando, A, 70,000 [S 77,000] oranges, 165 doz. cork, 500 lampreys, 1 pipe train oil, 6 cases sugar, 5 doz. Portuguese skins, 4 sacks bays, 20 ends iron [S weight] 4 C. lbs., £59 8s.


111. 3 Apr. From the ship of John Heyns called Mary Neewe Condy Francis Fornandus, A, 400 lampreys, 40 sacks litmus, 40 doz. cork, 3 [S 4] doz. Portuguese skins, 1 sack bays, 50 lbs. wax, £37 8s.4d.
Gonsalvus Rodrecus [S Roderigus], A, 300 lampreys, 10,000 oranges, 40 doz. cork, 6 doz. Portuguese skins, £14 6s.8d.
Andrew Alvolus, A, 40 doz. cork, 10,000 oranges, 5 doz. Portuguese skins, 350 [S 300] lampreys, £14 10s.


Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

User avatar
Strickland
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:53 am
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby Strickland » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:53 pm

Thank you John! Very informative.

Neil


Its not the years in your life that count, but the life in your years. Nullum est coclear!!!

User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:34 pm

There were cork soled pattens in the 15th C. Personally, I'd go for wooden stoppers or waxed linen covers. I've never heard of any evidence for cork stoppers that early.

Colin


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

Adam R
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: East of Nottingham
Contact:

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby Adam R » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:17 pm

Interesting.

Sounds like it may be on the cusp:
http://www.beekmanwine.com/prevtopap.htm

And one link further down reveals it to be a bit later than the blessed 15C
http://sustainablematerials.com/resourc ... -stoppers/

Back to your linen cupboard then...


KDF Nottingham
"Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

guthrie
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Polmont-Edinburgh

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby guthrie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:52 pm

I've wondered about it myself; seen pictures form 16th century that look about right, but not for the 15th.
As John says the tricky bit is what the cork is used for.



Adam R
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: East of Nottingham
Contact:

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby Adam R » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:59 pm

Apparently for soles:
http://corkcutter.info/page/view/the-hi ... f-cork-use

Floats for nets too I imagine, but there's no date for that.
http://corkcutter.info/page/view/what-d ... tters-make

This is just one site I grant you!


KDF Nottingham
"Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

Adam R
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: East of Nottingham
Contact:

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby Adam R » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:04 pm

And:

1400- 1600 AD: At this time the great explorers were the Portuguese who were the first people to sail around Africa and on to India, Japan and China in the East. Their little ships were called Caravels and they used cork to make parts of these ships because of its strength and light weight but also because cork never rots even when it is left in the sea.

From this very annoying page:

http://www.planetcork.org/history_of_cork.html


KDF Nottingham
"Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

guthrie
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Polmont-Edinburgh

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby guthrie » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:32 am

Hmm, I'd want a source for such a claim as that. In fact they make the same claim about ROman ships, yet using google scholar I can find a paper which mentions the use of cork oak on one ship from 2nd century BC. Cork oak is hardly cork.



User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:33 pm

Yes and no, it is the same plant. It's just that cork comes from the bark, while they're talking about the wood itself.

Colin


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

guthrie
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Polmont-Edinburgh

Re: CORKS OR STOPPERS for 15thC??

Postby guthrie » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:28 pm

Yes, exactly. They could have some real evidence, or they misread a paper and thought cork oak meant cork itself.




Return to “1100-1500”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests