Bollock dagger

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Bronzeadin
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Bollock dagger

Postby Bronzeadin » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:24 pm

Hi guys, just a quick question. Can anyone recommend a good Bollock dagger, not too expensive but suitable for a household archer.
Thanks in advance for any help, or amusing responses.
Cheers.



Phoenix Rising
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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Phoenix Rising » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:27 pm

Could try the Two 'J's -

http://www.twojs.me.uk/daggers.htm

They have one for sale (blunt or sharp) for £30. Decent stuff for good price (got mine from there, and they only charge you what it costs to send it, not a fixed rate which leaves you out of pocket like some companies do!) :)



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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:36 pm

Dagger looks good for a bargain but change the hanging thing and get a new chape as those are a bit 'ewwww' if you are being picky. Bollock daggers are more often found with a single edge, but they do have two as well. MoL Knives and scabbards book will have information (although stopping around 1420's.)


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby guthrie » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:38 pm

It might be simpler if you put all of your questions on one thread, rather than starting a new one. That's 3 within a week, all for little questions which might be better answered as part of a whole, like "I'm wanting to be an X, where can I get kit from?"

2j's is fine for starters, then you move into either good quality imported stuff, see the markets in November, or at Tewkesbury. Or else hand made in the UK. I have a very nice bollok dagger made by Paul Binns, for about £50 nearly a decade ago, probably 60 or 70 now.

Mind you I've never seen any evidence for a chape like on that 2J's scabbard. The dagger shape etc is close enough, but the entire assembly is on the cheaper side I think of what you would have had then.



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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:18 pm

Think guthrie has a point, if put in a hibernian, straight to it kind of way.

Just put a list up and we'll throw suggestions at you.

There is probably a sliding scale of costs for all items that most people would or wouldn't touch. At £30 I'd be suspicious on a knife and scabbard so if you spent a wee bit more you'd not be selling it after the first season. Many groups wouldn't allow that anyway.

Also consider buying just the knife and buying some leather and learning how to make a sheath. Re-enactment has some really useful skills within it and its v satisfying making stuff when you are starting out. You learn so much more than just handing over a tenner for a cheap sheath. Not wanting to do any craftspeople out of a sale but you'll still end up upgrading it eventually anyway, thats human nature, and you'll have learnt something into the bargain.

Have fun!
Last edited by Mark Griffin on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:27 pm

What group are you in Bronzed? They should be able to give you guidelines and show you examples. Or have a look at the Gerry Embleton Medieval Soldier books, they show good reconstructions of a variety of levels of troops.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby gregory23b » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:15 pm

I have a problem with that dagger, two as it happens, I can't see the wood type and the leather work is really poor, ie well put together but with no regard for medieval leatherwork, it looks like a lot of cheap Indian leatherwork. 30 quid is way too cheap IMHO.


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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Phoenix Rising » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:28 pm

Just as a point, can't say I've had anyone come up to me in the last 3 years of me using mine and say 'Oi, mate, that's not right there here'

A lot depends upon what you can afford, and on just how far you need to be 'authentic' - and hate to say it, but the photos don't really do the piece justice. It does look much better in real life than pictured.



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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:03 am

I'd also want to know construction and cant see it from the pic. Is it a straight through tang? Or just stuck in without a peened over cap at the end. Can't recall any bollock knife being the latter.

If anyone wants my opinion, if in anyway possible save up a teeny bit more and go for this.

http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/theenglishcutler/knives/bollock-dagger-kit-knives.htm

You will NEVER have any issues with it, and will wear it with pride for many years.

Sorry to be going on for so long about this Bronzeadin but as you can see, re-enactment is a broad church with many different levels of kit acceptability.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:06 am

And the more I post the more my number of posts gets closer to Gregory 23b

:D :o :roll: :crazy: :wasntme: :D :D :D


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

Bronzeadin
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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Bronzeadin » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:29 pm

I really appreciate the help guys. I must admit that a Bollock dagger was something I'd never really put much thought into. I like the idea of the kit, I hadn't considered that. I've made a kit knife before, a Finnish bushcraft knife which was fun to do and turned out well. Still use it today.



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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:45 am

Sounds good, I copied a swedish one but some scrote lifted it, glad yours still gives good service.

I think you made a good point there, not giving it much thought. I'm not saying this is precisely your chain of thought but many re-enactors start off with 'oooh thats pretty and/or cheap' without doing the what do I need-what does it need to look like-do some proper research then make decision chain.

So if we've helped in some way, fabbo. Keep the questions coming!


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

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gregory23b
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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby gregory23b » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:03 pm

Phoenix, people don't as a rule, shame, more should.

I can see very well from that photo that the leatherwork is crap, sorry, but it is not medieval, just some bog standard modern leather work the knife handle is some foreign wood, and at 30 quid it wont be better than poor. I say this because I am the not so proud custodian of some 'ok to look at at fifty yards' eating knives, similar in lack of quality to that BD, which, if I had any choice would not use them, so I am not being negative simply for the fun of it. On the other hand, I also have a nice cook's knife from St George Armouries for not much more than the knife in question and it had a lot of good workmanship on it and is made of the right wood and finish, no scabbard, but they are not hard to make, esp the eating knife variety.

As Mark's link suggests, you can get the makings of a complete and accurate BD for twice the price, but could realise more than that once made, well worth it.

IMHO Bronze save your cash for a better piece of kit that will have some resale value, or get rid of the handle and reset a better one, that might be a less expensive alternative.

I don't have a lot of spare cash for things, but I learned a long time ago to save up for better and thereby save money in the long run and flog it off for much less of a loss in the future.


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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby SirUlf » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:45 pm

Or make your own! Tod sells the blades, just whittle a handle and have your own unique dagger.



wembly6
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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby wembly6 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:22 pm

SirUlf wrote:Or make your own! Tod sells the blades, just whittle a handle and have your own unique dagger.


I second SirUlf's suggestion (having seen his nice example that he made). Buying the blade from Tod means you know you have a good quality blade that is going to last, and you end up with a unique dagger that is personal to you, and avoids the "I buy my kit from the same shop as him" look that you sometimes get with reenactors.



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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:01 pm

Although I suspect that people did actually buy items from the same vendor back then as well.


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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:51 pm

Yes, even a casual glance of pics of traders in housebooks and books of trades etc do show similarity in stock being sold. The later examples, the 16th cent German woodcuts are more exact than the more cartoony earlier versions so might be more representative but as anyone who makes things, even in a cottage/artisan style will probably say its easier to make a similar run than it it to keep making individual bespoke items.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.

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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby SirUlf » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:26 pm

wembly6 wrote:
SirUlf wrote:Or make your own! Tod sells the blades, just whittle a handle and have your own unique dagger.


I second SirUlf's suggestion (having seen his nice example that he made). Buying the blade from Tod means you know you have a good quality blade that is going to last, and you end up with a unique dagger that is personal to you, and avoids the "I buy my kit from the same shop as him" look that you sometimes get with reenactors.


Why thank you. :)

If you look at pictures of the handles they've found in the Thames you can see how much cruder these things actually were than something turned on a lathe, like these: http://www.allenantiques.com/Weapons-Da ... ction.html. And it's FUN to whittle.



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Re: Bollock dagger

Postby Mark Griffin » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:41 pm

If I had my way, everyone would make their first shoes, shirt, braes and knife plus sheath. You learn so much and enlarge your understanding massively.


http://www.griffinhistorical.com. A delicious decadent historical trifle. Thick performance jelly topped with lashings of imaginative creamy custard. You may also get a soggy event management sponge finger but it won't cost you hundreds and thousands.


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