Helmet Rivets

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Julia
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Helmet Rivets

Postby Julia » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:46 pm

I have a conical helmet with nasal, it came with a spider that had come unstuck from the helmet. Rather than simply continuing the failure and sticking it back in with epoxy, one member has suggested that I rivet it in place with small copper rivets. Which sounds like it might look quite nice.

Another member of our group has said that it would be more accurate to use steel rivets. My concern is that they will rust and be a right PITA to keep clean.

From an authenticity point of view, are copper rivets to hold the spider in place acceptable? Is there another method I have overlooked?

Thanks

Julia



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The_Kyle
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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby The_Kyle » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:30 am

Whats the helmet made of? Why would the rivets rust any worse than the rest it?



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zauberdachs
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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby zauberdachs » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:36 am

I wonder if copper and steel form a sacrificial relationship with one rusting more quickly because of the other?


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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby Ghost » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:33 am

it will, bi-metallic corrosion will occur


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Colin Middleton
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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby Colin Middleton » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:41 pm

Lots of armourers use brass rivets to connect leather to the armour. I've rescently been told however that surviving harnesses don't have coper-alloy rivets, but instead use brassed steel rivets for decorative purposes.


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nathan
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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby nathan » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:47 pm

Hi Julia, as others have suggested bi-metallic corrosion can occur and this is the reason people often avoid combining copper with steel. My understanding is that copper-alloys tend not to suffer form this to the same extent but I do expect that this would depend greatly on the alloys.

An option you may want to look into would be to use something like a carpet tack (or small wide headed nail, a roofing nail might be an equally valid choice) pass these through tight fitting slightly conical holes (drill then use a conical burr or round file from the outside), rivet a leather band to the helmet and then grind the surface smooth. This leather band then becomes the foundation for you to stitch your band too.

Another option would be to just drill holes in the band and lace your liner in place with thick sturdy cord/thonging. The Olmütz helm (single piece conical) has holes around it's rim quite probably used for this purpose (no evidence that rivets have been drilled out and the help dates from a period where coifs are in use so it's probably not a crude mechanism to attach a mail curtain), see http://historicaldetailsandstuff.tumblr ... 1168745799

HTH
N.


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Julia
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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby Julia » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:23 am

nathan wrote:Another option would be to just drill holes in the band and lace your liner in place with thick sturdy cord/thonging. The Olmütz helm (single piece conical) has holes around it's rim quite probably used for this purpose (no evidence that rivets have been drilled out and the help dates from a period where coifs are in use so it's probably not a crude mechanism to attach a mail curtain), see http://historicaldetailsandstuff.tumblr ... 1168745799

HTH
N.


I think that picture pretty much sells me on the idea of lacing the spider into place. I shall pick up some leather thonging and break out the HSS drill bits.

Thanks

J



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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby Mark Griffin » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:30 pm

Until decent drill bits for steel and the materials to make them arrived holes were punched or 'drifted' through plate armour for rivets and other reasons such as buckle attachments, pins, hooks, etc

Rivets on armour are iron/steel. There is no evidence for anything else for the constructional parts (decorative stuff is different) and indeed ordinances against the use of non-ferrous alternatives.

As gold doesn't adhere to steel very well rivets are often capped with brass to make gilding easier. It's these brass capped rivets that people see on remaining original armours, giving rise to the reenactorism of using solid brass rivets.


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Re: Helmet Rivets

Postby Mark Griffin » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:40 pm

Also, reading your original post, when you say 'spider' do you mean a leather suspension web? This is a little more ambiguous and seems to be a bit of a reenactorism but as has been mentioned below the leather band riveted on so you can sew a padded liner in seems to be more common although the leather thong through holes method might be a possible period alternative. Just make sure the holes are smooth, I've had a though abraded through in the past, annoying whilst trying to do a knights job on a horse.


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