15th century powder flasks

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abaddon1974
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15th century powder flasks

Postby abaddon1974 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:10 pm

I am looking for a 15th century powder flask and during my search on the web have managed to find nothing at all.
I can find tudor and beyond but nothing pre tudor.
Does anyone know what they would have used in the 15th century?

Craig



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Langley » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:27 am

We use stoppered horn and have done ever since I got involved but not sure what the provenance is. As no other replies will ask Lady L when she gets home.



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby abaddon1974 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:43 pm

I use a stoppered horn at the moment, but have been told that it is not correct for period but the person who told me this could not say what was correct for period.

Craig



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Tod » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:36 pm

That means they were talking b******s and hadn't a clue. I know 16th century hand horn flasks they also had the wood type with a spring loaded spout, so I would have thought horn would be fine. There are also leather flasks but I don't know how early they are.

I know later groups insist on a valved flask, less chance of blowing your hand off.



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby abaddon1974 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:08 pm

That it may be cow dung was my initial thought as well.
I carry a minimal amount of powder in the horn and only use it for priming, the main charges are pre measured in bamboo tubes stoppered with tissue papered wadding.
If my horn went up with the amount of powder I think it would burn rather than explode because of the minimal amount of powder in it.

Craig



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Tod » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:54 am

Some years ago we had an open cartridge blow up, maybe flash would be a better description. There was less than one charge for 12 bore musket in it. The injury was horrible. That was wrapped in paper not contained within a flask that is bomb, it that goes off just with a bit in it (I assume you don't have a blow out seal?) it will take your hand off. As for the cartridges who ever told you that was a good idea? Are you using this for a handgonne or a cannon? Have you had any training (thats an offer).



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Fox » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:17 am

Most of the horns have a wooden base that is barely tacked in; this is supposed to be the failure point if the powder flashes off.

I still use one with spring valve and measure.
I need to get a stoppered one for "show and tell", because I can't always nick Dave Bs. :)



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Langley » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:51 am

We put our main charge powder in linen bags kept in a working box (similar in construction to main approved storage boxes but with jut 3 compartments. The left over powder is returned to plastic bottles in main box after use. It is loaded from the bag using a copper scoop. Priming powder is in a small stoppered horn flask but is used by pouring measure into gloved hand (judged by eye) and from the gloved hand into the priming hole. This means any flash off does not ignite a flask. I have a friend with one finger less than he should due to that happening. We wad with grass (dry first then damp to get seal) or preferably moss if you can get it bearing in mind protected species regs! Spend ages before firing demo at Midfest a few years back picking up dropped loaded paper cartridges. Found 16 with about an ounce in each in front of the gun line. Could have been interesting if we had not cleared up before unleashing the 40ft muzzle flash we know we get from photos.



abaddon1974
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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby abaddon1974 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:19 am

The pre measured charges for handgonnes are pretty much the norm for wotr fed and l&m, is this not a good idea? (not a cartridge sorry for any misunderstanding as the bamboo tupe is simply to carry a pre measured charge, it is then of course poured down the muzzle)
It is also the same as any gunner that uses apostles, which on sheer numbers must have many more using them than any other way of doing things given that the sealed knot use them.
Of course that does not mean it is the best or safest way of doing things.

I would guess that loading into linnen bags with copper scoop etc. is for a cannon as I cannot see that working for my little handgonne.

Craig



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Fox » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:52 am

abaddon1974 wrote:The pre measured charges for handgonnes are pretty much the norm for wotr fed and l&m, is this not a good idea?

I've gunned with Fed gunners quite a bit, and I would say there's mix of both "apostles" and horns with measures.

I can see advatages and drawbacks to either method.



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Joolz » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:22 am

I've always used paper cartridges (well, more like fag paper 'wraps'!). My background is in 'live' shooting - if you poured powder from any receptacle (flasks, apostles etc.) on the range, you would be told off sharpish!! Okay, you get bits of paper flying around (clean up after yourself!) but you don't lose your hand....

Priming is different, as it's the last operation you do, by which time if there was a likelihood of a flash, it would have happened by then. So we can prime from a flask. I have different ones, some I've bought, some I've made myself. Here's an example in leather, a collaborative effort:

(obviously not 15thC, though)
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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby James The Archer » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:23 pm

As Wars of the Roses Federation Master Gunner, I will not go anul on any one using pre made charges or flask as long as it is done with care ensuring no embers are left in barrel before loading.
I perfer premade charges for battle as less change of mistakes with batttle going on around as long as you have a methed to ensure you are not leaving charges on the floor - yep I've picked them up after display, normal after we follow another periode on.
There has been a few mensions of carrying pre-made charges via differant materal from feathers to paper being carried in the brim of your hat! :o
So if you use a flask, either one with safety stopper or pour into a mesure then into gun.
Pre-made, wood, bamboo (I use them), paper (I've used them before), ensure you know how many you have with you, how many you have used and know you have not left any on the field and are in a bag etc to add another level agaist sparks


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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby Langley » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:05 am

James The Archer wrote:ensure you know how many you have with you, how many you have used and know you have not left any on the field and are in a bag etc to add another level agaist sparks


That is the bit which does not seem to happen with many gunners though. We get fed up delaying a show because we have to clean up after the previous one before we feel safe to fire. the muzzle flash from our gonnes have been shown in photos to reach 40 ft! Big area to have to check to prevent anything nasty happening in front of us.



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Re: 15th century powder flasks

Postby James The Archer » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:20 am

Langley wrote:
James The Archer wrote:ensure you know how many you have with you, how many you have used and know you have not left any on the field and are in a bag etc to add another level agaist sparks


That is the bit which does not seem to happen with many gunners though. We get fed up delaying a show because we have to clean up after the previous one before we feel safe to fire. the muzzle flash from our gonnes have been shown in photos to reach 40 ft! Big area to have to check to prevent anything nasty happening in front of us.


It is a case of good training and self discipline, Like too many Archers, too many gunners do not practice enoth in handling the gun and powder to ensure that the actions to make loading the gun and firing instinctively safe


Duck the arrows are coming!


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