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Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:16 pm
by Tod
I tried to find the old thread on this with no luck.
At the week end the Capt of Archers told the archers that is we drew a weapon we would be stomped by the bill men etc. Needless to say as far as I could see I was the only archer who stood and fought (died in about 2 seconds).
For all you archers out there. The chap who killed me didn't try and hurt me, we did the eye contact and a nod at each other and he killed me with his bill, I'd drawn my sword and stood no chance. I did pin my fingers betwen his bill and my armour but that was my fault not his. This is maybe the fourth time I've been killed and to date no one has come at me like a nutter.
But if we are going to have some one who is our officer telling us we are going to get stomped it WILL put people off. The fact he was IMO in the totally the wrong kit for a WOTR battle is by the by. The fact is most of the bill men/man at arms on the field were from the Fed and they have archers in their own groups and aren't out to hurt you. They know we have less armour (maybe only a padded jack) and will fight accordingly. I put my trust in them, like every one I have work on Monday.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:24 pm
by Langley
If all else fails Tod, fight the Gloucesters. I trained them in the art of killing me gently years ago... (Why do I feel a song coming on?). You are right though - I have always been treated in a very gentlemanly way and blows suited to the amount of protection have been the norm. Even better - draw your sword only when chasing down the loosers in the rout then you get to kill them.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:37 pm
by Type16
Fighting archers is the way our group want to go -- well certainly train-up so that we have the option :-) It looks good to the public and adds an extra dimension all round. If it was not an option, then why did archers mostly carry side arms?

On the occasions when I have done it, I have never feared injury. On the contrary, the guys who have finished me off have been truely courteous and safe.

I was once told that archers were good runners and opportunists. Me run? Not in my character -- although it could also be something to be with my fitness.

I can only suspect that the capt of archers referred to must have limited hand to hand experiences.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:28 pm
by gregory23b
"They know we have less armour (maybe only a padded jack) and will fight accordingly."

There is no reason for the average 'bill man' to be better armoured than an archer.

Ideally, no archer should be on the field without a jack and sallet (regardless of actual prevalence in musters etc etc), otherwise it adds to the recurring reenactment myth that they don't/didn't fight.

A good jack, (see Johnny Waller and his Oxford lot for excellent jacks), is better than just a breast plate as it gives you decent protection front and back and arms, chappies with just a breast and sallet have more exposed parts.

Archers should feel and be as well protected as anyone else, but until those that shoot, despite not fighting, actually get their fingers out or are pushed to, they they will look like naked men who simply can't fight. Not to mention the bill block thing anyway, but that is for another time.

Glad you had a good fight experience though, always good when the opponent is a good egg.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:03 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Well I was a "billman" and I wore a jack, a sallet and a maille standard, I did run away, I hid behind the water bearers, then in the crowd and finally got to surrender, so there.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:33 pm
by gregory23b
But you are not normal, are you dear?

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:36 pm
by Type16
Anybody who wears a Fez ...............................

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:07 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Fez's are cool.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:12 pm
by Type16
Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Fez's are cool.
Cuba!
When upsidedown & fullof ice & white wine. Sorry, thinking of an ice bucket.

No more diversions from me :-)

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:35 pm
by chrisanson
i have a fez ]:)

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:00 am
by Medicus Matt
EVERYONE should have at least one fez. One for best and a spare in case of sudden insurrections is my usual contingent.

As for archers getting minced....much as I dislike the bendy-stick wielding little sods, anyone who deliberately engages anyone else on the field with anything other than controlled blows appropriate to the opponents armour (or lack thereof) should be taken from said field and given a bloody good hiding......

I mean 'talking to'.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:09 am
by John Waller
[quote="gregory23b

A good jack, (see Johnny Waller and his Oxford lot for excellent jacks)[/quote]

Mine is from TPAC and is OK, just wish it was a bit longer and that I had opted for another closing method to hooks and eyes. Paul and Bryan's are home made - it has only taken Bryan 7 years to finish his! I may need to make another as my lad keeps nicking mine to go and play with the billmen.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:19 am
by Tod
I got mine from Cloaked and Daggered and I put way too many buckles on it so it takes too long to get off, but I copied a picture (I think they were thinner and fitter than me). I've seen the chap in Oxfords with the hand made ones, mine is hand finished and has hand sewn seams, Angie has put more lines on it and we still have more work to do to get it to the level I want.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:15 pm
by Goose
Never had any of those issues.

I am a combatant and an Archer. Sometimes I have been known to be dark age, Dark Age, DARK AGE :devil: Heavy Artillery (3 Javelins, Bow & Arrows, Sword, Axe, knife, Shield, Maille) but that is just for silliness.

Essentially the main thing is to know how to fight, and what to expect. So when the opponent tries to run you down, you can protect yourself without getting hurt. Oh and then hand them their *rse on a plate, they look very shocked when you do that 8-)

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:49 pm
by uksimes
Surely anyone on 'the field of battle' has had some training, and is sufficiently attired?

I have seen Archers fall down dead (or at least, swoon away)at the approach of a pole, or sword, and seen others, usually better prepared with arming jack, buckler, and either sallet or kettlehead helmet, give as good as they get...and then die.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:01 pm
by Tod
uksimes wrote:Surely anyone on 'the field of battle' has had some training, and is sufficiently attired?
You would hope so but its not the case. It depends what groups are there and who is organising the event.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:25 am
by Fox
Medicus Matt wrote:EVERYONE should have at least one fez.
I thought you might bring me a nice one when you went abroad, but you didn't.
I stay here doing the washing and the cleaning, while you're swanning around drink gin and tonic in the sunshine, and you couldn't even bring me a nice hat.
Well next time, you can scrub your own underpants!

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:29 am
by Fox
Tod wrote:I got mine from Cloaked and Daggered and I put way too many buckles on it so it takes too long to get off, but I copied a picture (I think they were thinner and fitter than me). I've seen the chap in Oxfords with the hand made ones, mine is hand finished and has hand sewn seams, Angie has put more lines on it and we still have more work to do to get it to the level I want.
Cloak'd and Dagger'd jacks are 100% hand stitched [unless you specifically requested something else].

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:54 am
by Medicus Matt
Fox wrote:I thought you might bring me a nice one when you went abroad, but you didn't.
I stay here doing the washing and the cleaning, while you're swanning around drink gin and tonic in the sunshine, and you couldn't even bring me a nice hat.
Well next time, you can scrub your own underpants!
I bought many things for many people. They're all still there, either mouldering in my room or being worn by the effigy of me that is no doubt being paraded around Ain Zara.

If you're going to be churlish about it, I shall forgo the underpants altogether.

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:19 am
by Tod
Fox wrote:
Tod wrote:I got mine from Cloaked and Daggered and I put way too many buckles on it so it takes too long to get off, but I copied a picture (I think they were thinner and fitter than me). I've seen the chap in Oxfords with the hand made ones, mine is hand finished and has hand sewn seams, Angie has put more lines on it and we still have more work to do to get it to the level I want.
Cloak'd and Dagger'd jacks are 100% hand stitched [unless you specifically requested something else].
Nope, every thing is hand sewn, and then hand finished, by which I mean fitted. Which is why Jackie (Cloak'd and Dagger'd) makes all my clothing (except what Angie makes, and as she is my girlfriend I get rather nice stuff, I think you get the same deal from Jackie).

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:16 pm
by Nigel
John Waller wrote:[quote="gregory23b

A good jack, (see Johnny Waller and his Oxford lot for excellent jacks)
Mine is from TPAC and is OK, just wish it was a bit longer and that I had opted for another closing method to hooks and eyes. Paul and Bryan's are home made - it has only taken Bryan 7 years to finish his! I may need to make another as my lad keeps nicking mine to go and play with the billmen.[/quote]

so drop it in over christmas and Debs will put points in it for you (you only had to ask)

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:18 pm
by Nigel
Goose wrote:Never had any of those issues.

I am a combatant and an Archer. Sometimes I have been known to be dark age, Dark Age, DARK AGE :devil: Heavy Artillery (3 Javelins, Bow & Arrows, Sword, Axe, knife, Shield, Maille) but that is just for silliness.

Essentially the main thing is to know how to fight, and what to expect. So when the opponent tries to run you down, you can protect yourself without getting hurt. Oh and then hand them their *rse on a plate, they look very shocked when you do that 8-)
yes but you is differant to a lot of C15th archery types

Re: Fighting archers

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:27 pm
by Gagglewrangler
Nigel wrote:yes but you is differant to a lot of C15th archery types
[/quote]

too right there Nigel, Goose is unique, this world couldnt cope with any more than that at one time 8-)