A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

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bonnacon
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Postby bonnacon » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:09 pm

Nice one Mythos et al - this is developing nicely :D


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*Mythos
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Postby *Mythos » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:15 pm

Narvek

You ask for information on Ian Brennan and may have had a direct e-mail on this, but for public information here is his website address:

http://www.heraldicsculptor.com/woodcar ... rennan.htm

Be advised, however, that this chap will not come cheap. He creates crests for formal settings such as Westminster, which will be top-class; but he is unlikley to be dealing with producing many for actual use, I would imagine, and hence his prices would be pitched at the higher level.



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Postby john mackay » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:33 am

As Mythos says of course his price is a little higher then making it yourself but the work is fantastic. he has done number of these crests now.
he also does very nice coats of arms carved from wood they look great out side the tent etc also i had my crest carved out of wood for the top of my new tent. it is twice as big as my helm crest. but didnt bust the bank. of course every crest is diffrent , mine being a simple hand and dagger. Who made your one Mythos?



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Postby gregory23b » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:27 am

Two views of a quick and dirty helmet orb, themed: knight of the midday sun, made very quickly at Hampton Court joust weekend, August Bank holiday.

Gilded wooden orb, vermillion and lead tin yellow over painted.

Vermillion then lead tin for the highlights.

The paint is scratched off to reveal the gold.
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sun orb side.jpg
sun orb under.jpg


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Postby Zachos » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:04 am

So I took part in a crest mellee a couple weekends ago. The crests and attachments were a bit last minute, but worked well enough. I'm going to be making a new one for next year. I also got my helmet re-painted in time for the battle of edgecote. As a staunch Yorkist and one of the ap harries who died at the battle, I decided to get it repainted specially, and was finishing it in the lunchbreak of the friday before.
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edgecotezac.jpg
painted helmet
648347864_7nUQm-M.jpg
crest mellee crest


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Postby *Mythos » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:52 am

Karen Larsdatter

A delayed response to your posting of 6 September (I have been out of the country for a few weeks): I have tweaked one of the other photographs of your friend Kevin at Pennsic in an effort to make his crest of a Golden Bear somewhat clearer. I hope it has worked, and that you do not mind pictures being worked on by others.

Overall one must say that the general ambience at this event, as evidenced by the banners, arena rope cladding, grandstands and so on, is quite impressive. A great effort has been made also on the surcoats and the audience look splendid. It seems, to me at least, to give a good representation of what a tourney would have looked like. Well done, the Society for Creative Anachronism!

And please keeping posting these very useful references for us, Karen.


Bear helmet Crest.jpg
Last edited by *Mythos on Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:38 pm

Mounting the Crest and Mantle to the Helm

A useful exposition on methods of mounting one's crest to the helmet by Randy Asplund. This includes some further examples of contemporary pictures of crest and mantles from the C14 and C15 Centuries.

http://www.randyasplund.com/browse/medieval/crest.html



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:16 am

This is the one I ought to wear for my character, but can't say I'm particularly keen on the idea in its current state. And anyone who knows me & my other interests knows I'd choose a different colour for any head addornmant & it would be somewhat different.

That said, I'm more than happy to take on certain aspects of it.The Blue & white & up to a point the horns, for my own reasons & interests.

Image

Can't see that being practical at all tbqh



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:33 am

Sir Thomas

Your persona's crest is clearly not an easy one to replicate, and as shown in your picture would not make for great practicality in a melee.

I think that what this shows is that crests were mainly adopted for the tournament joust situation on horse back and for use with a lance. In a melee, the crest would be more likely to intrude when a sword was being used, although there are clear contemporary illustrations of complicated crests being worn even then. It would seem that a crest such as Sir Thomas Hylton's would perhaps have to be adapted (with shorter horns perhaps?) or it may be that the fighting technique of swordfight on horseback would have required adjustment to the sword strokes.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:38 am

Cheers *Mythos. Not to mention I'd feel a right pl*^ka wearing anything like that on a helmet of any sort. Though like you say I could take vestiges of the idea. Though do I have the sheer gall to do it & carry it off?

Might be interesting coming up with something to give the feel of that maybe on another helmet.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:28 am

Ah, well, Sir Thomas: you could either change your persona and select your own preferred colours and crest design; or alternatively ignore the requirements of the real Sir Thomas's crest. It is doubtful that anyone would know the difference except for you, I would guess.

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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Its More a Case the Hilton / Hylton colours & crest. And a case of I may need to change my persona at some stage anyway for various reasons. Not to mention There are numerous Hilton/Hyltons of the same family that repeated Christian names, which makes things interesting to say the least. I've actually chosen a lesser known one for the time period which is both an advantage & a disadvantage at the same time.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:09 pm

Well, whoever you finally opt for, Sir Thomas, I look forward to seeing the final result.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby mattb » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:04 pm

Here's one by Jeff de Boer http://www.medievalrepro.com/Images/arthur1.JPG the helmet is by Peter Fuller of Medieval Reproductions, both from Calgary.

Image more images here http://www.medievalrepro.com/Premier.htm

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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:17 am

A beautifully crafted crest, and the helm is impressive, too.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby Colin Middleton » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:44 pm

That is a PRETTY lid! :envy:


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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:56 pm

I have often wondered if ostrich feathers are correct for crests: would they have been obtainable in the C14 and C15?

Anyway, a useful site looking at the use of the peacock in helm crests....

http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/Helms.html


Peacock Helm.jpg
Peacock Helm.jpg (18.95 KiB) Viewed 8135 times
Last edited by *Mythos on Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:08 pm

Incidentally, if you are wondering (those who have placed attachments) how to remove the annoying border and "attachment" heading from your picture. I have just stumbled on the "Place inline" tab which appears when previewing: this removes the detritus and gives a clean image. Quite useful really.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:50 pm

I always thought Peacock feathers were supposed to be unlucky & yet seem to have seen them used numerous times recently. Not to mention on that crest.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby craig1459 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:43 am

*Mythos wrote:I have often wondered if ostrich feathers are correct for crests: would they have been obtainable in the C14 and C15?

yep

e.g.
Petty Custom Account 1480-1: Bernard Senterion [S Barnabas Senturyon], A, 1 brl. with 6 [S C.] bundles ostrich feathers, £4


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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:41 pm

Very interesting, Craig. Thank you for elucidating.

One assumes that they would have been obtained from traders who had made their way up to Europe from Africa. Mind you, £4 is a tremendous cost in those days, so a rare item confined to the richer classes.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:32 am

For an excellent source of the possible variety of crests, the Manesse Codex is difficult to beat.

Tournament Melee, Codex Manesse.jpg



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:12 pm

To access the Manesse Codex follow this link....

http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/digl ... 0773ca5e13

More or less the complete listings of individuals are to be found by clicking on the left hand column. These pictures, besides the depictions of war and tourneys, give other interesting images of daily life for the nobility.

Judging by the lack of plate armour, which should have been evident by the time the Codex was first completed in 1304, it would seem that either the artists were not totally au fait with changing styles or that the whole took some considerable time to finish. Hence, it is likely that the armouring dates from mid to late C13. Of course, it could also have been a simple convention to depict all in the same armour for convenience, as it is the heraldic arms and crests which are of more interest to the artists here.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby Colin Middleton » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:54 pm

What makes you think that
lack of plate armour, which should have been evident by the time the Codex was first completed in 1304
?

I'd understood that plate armour starts making it's apperance with schinbalds and crude coat-of-plate style garmets in the 1230s and that by the late 13th C knea and elbow coops were appearing, but that major adoption of more serious armour didn't occur until the mid 14thC. Certainly in 1304, I'd expect most of the armour to be mail, with only some limited re-inforcements added.


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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby narvek » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:10 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:I'd understood that plate armour starts making it's apperance with schinbalds and crude coat-of-plate style garmets in the 1230s and that by the late 13th C knea and elbow coops were appearing, but that major adoption of more serious armour didn't occur until the mid 14thC. Certainly in 1304, I'd expect most of the armour to be mail, with only some limited re-inforcements added.


I can agree with that, on the verge of 13th&14th C it's mostly still maille in the HRE.


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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:28 pm

Yes, that is exactly my point. I also would have expected knee and elbow cops to have been in evidence by the time the Codex was finished; but there are absolutely no indications of this in any of the pictures I have looked at. I probably misled by saying "plate armour", but meant elements of plate armour.

It is almost as if the artists were going back to 1250 or earlier. As I said, this could either be ignorance or convention of illustration. It would help to know when the Codex was started?



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby narvek » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:42 pm

The codex consits of two parts, one is earlier, the other one is later. The difference is about 15-20 years, it can be discerned by the edges of iluminations.
But ALL the iluminations are highly stylized, thus they can't be taken as 100% perfect. It's a piece of art, not document of every day.


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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:52 pm

The addendum is 1340 according to Wikipaedia, by which time parts of plate should be even more likely. This is even more suggestive of an artistic approach, as you say, Narvek. I do tend to think they are mainly interested in the armorials and crests, although some of these may be subject to artistic interpretation, too.



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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:24 pm

It is possible that such things took a very long time to be taken up, which could be why they are missing. Or if it's depicting one turnament, then perhaps they weren't allowed.

Or it could just be artistic interpretation. It's hard to say.


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Re: A Gallery of Helmet Adornments and Crests

Postby *Mythos » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:15 pm

A painting by Mark Dennis of the Heraldry Society of Scotland, showing a melee before King Robert I and his wife. This gives accurate arms and crests for Scottish knights of the era.

Melee of Scottish Knights Small.jpg


A larger version can be found on the following link, where you can also purchase a copy for the sum of £5...

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/tourna.html




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