Pole weapons

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zauberdachs
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Postby zauberdachs » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:42 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:That's right it looks like a different fish to the ones I'm on about.

That looks much more tasty then the later ones. I don't know why they become so elongated and thin.

Any ideas anyone?


More thin and elongated would suggest a weapon designed for thrusting? In terms of use I would suggest large cuts with the blade would be quite a difficult action to pull off, especially in a crowd, whereas thrusting is easier. Also worth bearing in mind that on the end of a large pole you don't need much additional weight to get a good cut so over time the larger, chunkier weapons were probably phased out.

Just an idea based on no solid fact.


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Felix
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Postby Felix » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:05 pm

Yeah and even after the thrust just let the blade fall a few inches and pull it back. With those hook like sections you will definitely cut a neck



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Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:41 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:If italain soldiers and commanders were so bad or cowardly why were they employed by everyone ...
:evil:


Calm down Marcus :oops: :)

Though I was pulling your leg a bit, I actually ment what I wrote. My reading of the quotes in A Knight And His Armour was that an Italian mercenary captain's men were his most valuable comodity. Such that they developed methods of fighting that reduced the risk to their men, while still acheiving their objectives (like most modern armies do). They manged to take this to such an extent by the 16th C that 2 Italian armies clashed and 'resolved' their differences with only 3 men dying. But of course, the could be crap.

Don't forget that many of the early medieval battles saw very few deaths amongst the knights, not because they were cowards, but because they were well trained and well armoured.


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Postby Phil the Grips » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:01 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:Don't forget that many of the early medieval battles saw very few deaths amongst the knights, not because they were cowards, but because they were well trained and well armoured.
...and ingrained with the culture of ransom.


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Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:09 pm

Phil the Grips wrote:
Colin Middleton wrote:Don't forget that many of the early medieval battles saw very few deaths amongst the knights, not because they were cowards, but because they were well trained and well armoured.
...and ingrained with the culture of ransom.


Well, you're less likely to dispatch someone you think you can make a profit from.



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Postby Phil the Grips » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:18 pm

...or is a cousin, or someone you were at university with, is a friend of your dad's, you were on the same side as in the last battle, is on your favourite jousting team, is your boss etc etc - happened right up until WWI with people knowing their opposition on personal terms and finding themsleves on a sticky wicket when it came to war, politics and family attachments.


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Colin Middleton
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Postby Colin Middleton » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:57 pm

Isn't that one of the things that was considered most horriffic about the WotR; that they started killing the lords in grudge matches, rather than ransoming them back.


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Sir Thomas Hylton
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Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:34 pm

Hw did we get from Pole weapons to either ransoming... or not... fellow lords... :shock: :shock: :shock:



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Postby m300572 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:49 pm

only two horses and one man were killed


Possibly the casualties reported reflected the number of "important" deaths. I don't really know the source or the period but there is a theory that in an earlier age in Italy, low Roman casualties were due partly to propaganda and partly due to the reporting of legionary (who were Roman citizens and therefore counted for votes) casualties, while the auxiliaries who may have borne the brint of the action had higher casualties but were barbarians so didn't matter.

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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:25 pm

"How did we get from pole arms to ransoming Lords".....it happens.

Perhaps because the masters of the pike and halbred, the Swiss and (Flemish) Germans had no interest in chivalry because they had a civic, rather than agrian background?

Perhaps because its harder to keep someone alive when you are hitting them with pollaxe rather than a sword?


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Postby Sir Thomas Hylton » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:06 pm

I'll go with that explanation for going off topic as an explanation of it still on topic :shock: 8) :lol: :D

Nice one Marcus. 8)



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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:03 pm

It is also fair to say that there were a lot of plain ordinary spear type weapons around as well.
They get missed out on re-enacted battlefields beacuse they don't have "cool" back hooks, forespikes and stuff (that you aren't allowed to actaully use properly anyway) but are always there in inventries and period images.


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Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:17 pm

I really like the spears that you see in the Beauchamp Pageant. They've got the flangs at the neck, like boar spears.


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:20 pm

ditto.


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Postby gregory23b » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:49 pm

PLus spear can be synonymous with other pole weapons, a tricky one.


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Postby Fox » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:48 am

gregory23b wrote:PLus spear can be synonymous with other pole weapons, a tricky one.


I assume you mean that in the writings of the time the word spear can be used as a generic pole weapon; this seems especially true when refering to units of men, e.g. 200 spears.



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Postby gregory23b » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:45 pm

In a nutshell yes.

But as in all periods not everyone who is writing about something is an expert on it, so to add more fuel to the fire of confusion it is equally likely that some bloke misdescribes something or other.


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