Occupation? Nun

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
moosiemoosiegander
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Up the Old Seadog
Contact:

Occupation? Nun

Postby moosiemoosiegander » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:41 am

I have been toying with the idea of being a nun at least part time for next year's season. I think, in short, it could be a lot of fun! I want to do things properly however so I was wondering if anyone could direct me towards any good publications/websites that would get me pointed in the right direction?

Also, under what circumstances might a nun be gadding about outside her convent? I was considering being a lay-sister as then could I combine it with the herbal medicine and cookery that I enjoy doing for living history?

Answers on an ecclesiastically appropriate postcard please?

Oh, and not a white habit, I prefer slimming black and it shows up stains less :P


I'm up and dressed, what more do you want?

User avatar
Karen Larsdatter
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: Occupation? Nun

Postby Karen Larsdatter » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:30 pm

Any particular period? (I'd thought of the nuns in the base-de-page illos in the Romance of Alexander, especially the nuns & monks playing stickball on fol. 22r, but I don't know if that's too early -- or too late -- for what you might be looking for.)



User avatar
moosiemoosiegander
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Up the Old Seadog
Contact:

Postby moosiemoosiegander » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:32 pm

Thanks for the links!

I was going for the mid/late 15th century. I have some grey wool fabric that I was hoping to use, would that make me a Poor Clare?


I'm up and dressed, what more do you want?

User avatar
Brother Ranulf
Post Centurion
Posts: 960
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Canterbury

Postby Brother Ranulf » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:50 pm

The "Poor Clares" or Minoresses were effectively the Second Order of Franciscans; we know that both St Francis and St Clare emphasised simplicity and poverty in their respective orders. The Franciscans could wear either brown or grey, both colours of cloth being cheaply available, so it seems reasonable to assume that the same applied to the Clares. Today the Poor Clares wear grey frieze, but many of the religious Orders have changed their clothing over time.

The Franciscans were friars, not monks, and the Poor Clares were the female equivalent: this means that they were not cloistered but working among the poor, the sick and the outcasts and dregs of society out on the streets (hence their establishments are always within urban areas). Such a role would avoid the need for an excuse to be away from your nunnery.

The Catholic Encyclopedia is always the best starting-point for anything like this; unlike wikipedia it is thoroughly reliable.

See
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12251b.htm


Brother Ranulf

"Patres nostri et nos hanc insulam in brevi edomuimus in brevi nostris subdidimus legibus, nostris obsequiis mancipavimus" - Walter Espec 1138

User avatar
moosiemoosiegander
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Up the Old Seadog
Contact:

Postby moosiemoosiegander » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:49 pm

Thanks for that, the link is absolutely sterling!

As i have an awful lot of grey wool kicking about the place, I may well plump for a Poor Clare (that and they sound jolly good!) As far as I can tell, the clothing consists of a loose tunic with fairly deep sleeves, a wimple and gorget (neck covering, right?!) a hood and sometimes a scapula.

Sound about right?


I'm up and dressed, what more do you want?

User avatar
Brother Ranulf
Post Centurion
Posts: 960
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Canterbury

Postby Brother Ranulf » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:11 pm

15th century is way out of my period but I found a picture of St Colette, who was a French Poor Clare of that period - it's at
http://www.poorclares.ie/Prayers2.html (scroll down the page)

There is a "generic" 15th century nun illustrated in
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/trail/htd_ ... s_03.shtml

As for the prayers in the first of these links, in the 15th century either Latin or Middle English would be appropriate. Such non-cloistered nuns would certainly have been equipped with a Paternoster, since they would often find themselves away from a chapel and would continue to observe the Holy Offices in that way.
Last edited by Brother Ranulf on Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.


Brother Ranulf



"Patres nostri et nos hanc insulam in brevi edomuimus in brevi nostris subdidimus legibus, nostris obsequiis mancipavimus" - Walter Espec 1138

User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Postby gregory23b » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:05 pm

And The Early English text society has a book or two on orders, IIRC the 15thc Manners book also has two instructions as additions, one may well be for poor clares, although I am sure the Good Brother will correct or expand. I have just tried to find it, it is 'filed' ;-)

The EETS also has a set of prayers in English, 15thc, excellent book, not got it, but will.


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf


User avatar
moosiemoosiegander
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Up the Old Seadog
Contact:

Postby moosiemoosiegander » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:36 pm

Thankyou again for all the info, it has been a massive help! I am decided once and for all that the Poor Clares are for me... massive amounts of spare wool notwithstanding, they also did work outside the convent with the sick and the poor, which is great for m'living history herbalism setup.

Now, if only I had a jar of leeches... :twisted:


I'm up and dressed, what more do you want?

User avatar
Sophia
Post Centurion
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Camberwell, London
Contact:

Postby Sophia » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:46 pm

moosiemoosiegander wrote:Thankyou again for all the info, it has been a massive help! I am decided once and for all that the Poor Clares are for me... massive amounts of spare wool notwithstanding, they also did work outside the convent with the sick and the poor, which is great for m'living history herbalism setup.

Now, if only I had a jar of leeches... :twisted:


Here!! :twisted: :lol: :lol:


aka Thomasin Chedzoy, Tailor at Kentwell Hall

User avatar
moosiemoosiegander
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Up the Old Seadog
Contact:

Postby moosiemoosiegander » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:50 pm

How absolutely wonderful!!!

Saves me dredging the pond :twisted:


I'm up and dressed, what more do you want?

User avatar
behanner
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:39 am

Postby behanner » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:22 am

I would not jump so quickly on that ship and ignore all others. I would see if you can find a book on the Poor Clares in England in the 15th century. That way you have something to give you more meat then just a rule to follow. I'm pretty sure they were not under local church jurisdiction so it can make researching them more difficult. For example there is a visitation in print from I think Lincoln religious houses that gives actual descriptions of the states of each house, and the latin has been translated although I think the perscriptions for the female houses were written in English. If the "medical" thing interests you there are several studies of hospitals in late medieval England that have come out in the last decade. Hospitals are kinda a catch all in this period.
http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/40601

As of around c1300 all nuns were to be strictly cloistered. This never happened. One of my profs actually did her PhD dissertation on the legal commentary of the law that put strict enclosure and in reality it just never happened. So I'm not saying don't do a Poor Claire but we often times jump very quickly at the first thing when what would be easier and more fully done is just a step or two down the road.

I'll post more tomorrow when I have a chance to look up a thing or two.



User avatar
moosiemoosiegander
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Up the Old Seadog
Contact:

Postby moosiemoosiegander » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:23 pm

Thanks for that, any and all information is much appreciated!

I'm not jumping straight on a boat really, the Clares have always appealed as I like the Franciscan way of doing things. If it happens that I can protray a Clare as well as just admiring them, all the better!

What an odd thing to say for a non-Christian... but it's true!


I'm up and dressed, what more do you want?

User avatar
Vez
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:26 am
Location: The God phoenix

Postby Vez » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:05 pm

I'm still working on my Cluniac nun outfit for next season ( costumes for Dragon con got in the way). For back ground reading, a good all rounder is Eileen Power - Medieval English Nuneries 1275 to 1535.


Image

User avatar
behanner
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:39 am

Postby behanner » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:22 pm

There were 3 Poor Claire houses in England in the 15th century.
Bruisyard, Suffolk
Denney, Cambs.
London

Bruisyard, little seems to be known.

There apparently is a bit about Denney in the VCH as their last abbess Dame Elizabeth Throckmorton was apparently a figure we know a bit about.

London- The Minories Abbey- apparently very well endowed. in the VCH
Book History of the Minories, London (1907) E.M. Tomlinson

You'll also likely want to find a copy of The Order of Minoresses in England, by A. F. C. Bourdillon. to look at.




Return to “1100-1500”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests