Animal Tails

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
StaffordCleggy
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:25 pm
Location: Rochdale

Postby StaffordCleggy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:06 pm

Only if you have a swarthy complexion & smell strongly of garlic!!!! :lol:

Mmmmm, garlic. our chef for the weekend is planning a paella......

Bit of a b**ger actually 'cos i was planning to do a jambalaya next weekend at Richmond! :oops:

Are we having a beer at Bosworth then Marcus?


"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
- Anne Lamott

User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:44 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Hmm, does that mean i can justify having a black shirt afterall. just another good reason for portraying an Italian.


Don't see why not. It should go nicely with your cloth of gold doublet and damasced silk velvet gown, right. Just be careful not to weigh yourself down with too much gold jewelery to go with that! :wink:


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:18 am

Is that a subtly worded way of saying no, Colin? Yes to the beer Cleggy, have to be careful though as my wife can't make it along that weekend and i'll have weans to be taking care of-also means that I'll be missing out on the fights, unless you want to start something in the camp (two giants come together in the contest to find which is the shortest badass of them all!)


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

James The Archer
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:19 pm
Location: Centre of the world

Postby James The Archer » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:15 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:i'll have weans to be taking care of-also means that I'll be missing out on the fights, unless you want to start something in the camp (two giants come together in the contest to find which is the shortest badass of them all!)


You or Herr Feld Marshal Von Clegg, Generalissimo of all the armies of Spain, Lord High Admiral of the Western Ocean, Sky Marshal of the Lesser Magellanic Star Cluster & Satan's favourite little Pixie, my money is on Cleggy,as by the time you've fnished with that lot you've forgotten what it was all about :twisted:


Duck the arrows are coming!

User avatar
The Iron Dwarf
Post Knight
Posts: 1335
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Northants

Postby The Iron Dwarf » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:17 pm

ere I eve you know that I may be shorter than Cleggy and after the mountain of chilli I intend to have tommorow evening I dont think anyones ass ( or even donkey ) could compete ;)


forges, fireboxes tools and more.
http://uk.ebid.net/buddy/52487
new stuff inc chainshot + grenadoes.
visit my place and have a go

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:51 pm

So a threesome it is, yeah baby!


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:30 am
Location: Basingstoke, Hants
Contact:

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:49 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:So a threesome it is, yeah baby!


Who's running the book?


www.cybalism.org - The new view of the Universal Truth

User avatar
StaffordCleggy
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:25 pm
Location: Rochdale

Postby StaffordCleggy » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:52 pm

Well, seeing as i have just managed to threaten my alleged 'superior' in the Sales & Marketing Dept. (no, i don't work in there) with being cut into small pieces & then thrown piecemeal out of the nearest window 'cos he repeatedly cocked up my materials order......... :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

- Anne Lamott

James The Archer
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:19 pm
Location: Centre of the world

Postby James The Archer » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:47 pm

StaffordCleggy wrote:Well, seeing as i have just managed to threaten my alleged 'superior' in the Sales & Marketing Dept. (no, i don't work in there) with being cut into small pieces & then thrown piecemeal out of the nearest window 'cos he repeatedly cocked up my materials order......... :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

And you left him in one pice ------- you must be getting old :twisted:


Duck the arrows are coming!

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:32 pm

I read just recentally that Owain Tudor was Knighted on account of the fact he "did hold at all times in sight of His Grace, the King (Henry V) upon the point of a spear a squirrals tail which was in being held most lucky by the King" during the Battle of Azincort. Time to dump those fox tails and find some tree rats fellas.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
bournio
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:46 pm
Location: Near Preston

Postby bournio » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:46 pm

Shoot as many grey's as possible guys!
Hang on... is it possible to have a grey squirrel in that period in the Uk?


If you look generic you look like a few people, ok...

Hobbitstomper
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:04 pm

Postby Hobbitstomper » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:55 pm

On the black stuff in foxbummery times...

Local black cloth (not sure if it is wool or linen) cost about 12 times as much as (white linen) canvas. Basically, the canvas price in pence is around the Scottish black price in shillings. Fancy imported French black cloth cost 3-4 times as much as the local cloth.

Prices taken form "Changing Values in Medieval Scotland", a book full of Scottish commodity prices.



guthrie
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Polmont-Edinburgh

Postby guthrie » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:49 pm

A book that I purchased last week!
What was your excuse?
Mine was that it has weights and measures in it, and I've since found that it also mentions coal and suchlike, nice to have references for its use to far back.



User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:22 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Is that a subtly worded way of saying no, Colin?


Yes, kind of, but I suspect that you knew that anyway. I'm not your authenti officer, so you make your own decision. I've just known a few people with silk shirts and hosen made of blanket. Silk was much cheaper in Italy than in England, but it was still very expensive.


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

Hobbitstomper
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:04 pm

Postby Hobbitstomper » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:47 pm

I was just interested. There is very little reliable information on prices unless you do the digging yourself.



hazy
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:03 pm

Postby hazy » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:27 pm

In general I think that black shirts are usually wrong- certainly I have never seen a piocture of a black shirt on anyone (with the exception of that picture of the Medici's, who as we all know, were massively rich) therefore, like Colin said, I wouldn't wear a black shirt unless it is silk, and unless you have the rest of the kit to match, including jewels and rings etc! Even then I'd be careful, as the Medici picture does seem to be the only one which shows black shirts (that I've seen at least)

As for the tails on belts, I think its very much a re-enactorism. Like others have said, one person with it may be acceptable, but the sheer numbers of people carrying them at the moment just can't be right.



User avatar
craig1459
Post Centurion
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Postby craig1459 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:39 pm

Talbot accounts 1401
1 ell of black cloth for the lady 2s
c/w
3 ells of white cloth (blanket) for lining the Lord's gown 8d


die Behmen hinder iren bafosen ... stunden vest wie die mauren

User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:45 pm

'Cloth' is likley to be wool. If they mean linnen, they usually say as much.


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

User avatar
Dave B
Post Knight
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:34 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Postby Dave B » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:15 pm

bournio wrote:Shoot as many grey's as possible guys!
Hang on... is it possible to have a grey squirrel in that period in the Uk?


No such thing as a grey squirrel. Squirrels are red, the fat bushy grey ones are tree-rats.

IIRC eastern grey squirrels are only indigenous to canada, from where they were introduced to the rest of the US and then to the UK in the 1800's.

As far as I can remember the red is the only true european tree squirrel. the Souslik is a close relation of the grey squirrel and has a similar looking coat and was a common medieval fur, so perhaps you could get away with using grey squirrel pelts, but it's a ground squirrel not a tree squirrel so it doesn't have a bushy tail. gray squirrel tails would be wrong.

although Dave the furrier may well be along to correct me shortly.


Find time in every day to look at your life and say; 'Well, it could be worse'

Kurt's uncle Bob.

User avatar
bournio
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:46 pm
Location: Near Preston

Postby bournio » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:11 pm

Dave B... not gonna stop shooting them though!


If you look generic you look like a few people, ok...

CFarrell
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Stirling
Contact:

Postby CFarrell » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:41 pm

The armies of William Wallace used the fox and wolf tail as a symbol of identification during the Scottish Wars of Independence. Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.



User avatar
John Waller
Post Knight
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:36 pm
Location: Surrey

Postby John Waller » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:51 am

CFarrell wrote:The armies of William Wallace used the fox and wolf tail as a symbol of identification during the Scottish Wars of Independence. Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.


Interesting. I have heard the story about the scots tanning the skin of Edward's treasurer and making belts and sporrans from it but not about them using animal tails. Do you have a primary source for this?


Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

CFarrell
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Stirling
Contact:

Postby CFarrell » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:36 pm

No sorry, I only know this because its the reason my group (The Swords of Dalriada) wears fox and wolf tails on our belts. Its because we re-enact the Wars of Independence. If you want I'll ask around the older members of the group and try to find a source for you.



guthrie
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
Location: Polmont-Edinburgh

Postby guthrie » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:55 pm

Yes please. A primary source would be necessary for such a large claim as this.



m300572
Post Centurion
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: NW England

Postby m300572 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:20 pm

bournio wrote:Shoot as many grey's as possible guys!
Hang on... is it possible to have a grey squirrel in that period in the Uk?


Depends on the level of pedantry - you can't have Grey Squirrel (S. carolinensis) as its a North American species introduced to Britain. You could, according to Dave of de Clifford, have grey coloured squirrel fur as the S. vulgaris which is the "common" or red squirrel native to Britain and Europe apparently comes in a range of colours from red to black, through grey and grey vair was imported to Britain in the Middle Ages.


Wilkes and Liberty, Wilkes and the Forty Five

User avatar
Fox
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2652
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:27 pm
Location: Cheshire

Postby Fox » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:26 pm

guthrie wrote:Yes please. A primary source would be necessary for such a large claim as this.


I think I'd accept a credible secondary source, say a respected author in a book where the primary sources are not directly linked to the individual facts.



User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:33 pm

My wife has been chewing my ear off with some ofthe re-enactorisms that she saw at Bosworth this weekend, so I'm throwing them into the mix for her:

Modern jewelery (faceted stones, clusters of small stones, etc).
Women wearing mens coats.
Women in sleevles kirtles without a gown on (especially if made of linnen).


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

m300572
Post Centurion
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: NW England

Postby m300572 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:41 pm

Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.


ON a "common sense" note - where did all these wolves come from? Even in medieval Scotland the wolf population would, I would guess, be relatively small - most top predators have relatively low populations compared to their prey - and they're not the sort of animal that you can nip out and catch without putting in a fair amount of work. The Wolf Trust reckon that the Highlands at present could support 250-1000 wolves - so a small unit of skirmishers with 1 tail each would pretty much wipe out the population.


Wilkes and Liberty, Wilkes and the Forty Five

User avatar
John Waller
Post Knight
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:36 pm
Location: Surrey

Postby John Waller » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:53 pm

m300572 wrote:
Wallace fought under the standard of a Wolf Tail, and eventually all the Scottish skirmishers used it as their symbol and wore one on their belt.


ON a "common sense" note - where did all these wolves come from?


Well you could always import them. Personally I think the idea sounds like nonsense. But if The Swords of Dalriada can provide evidence.....


Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

User avatar
Fox
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2652
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:27 pm
Location: Cheshire

Postby Fox » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:46 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:Women in sleevles kirtles without a gown on (especially if made of linnen).


That's a bit more complex. Certainly too many people dress like that, but it's not entirely wrong (we could certainly have long debate about whether it's provenancable or not).
For definitely wrong in that area, how about cloak but no gown?




Return to “1100-1500”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests