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Nails

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:45 am
by gregory23b
Anyone know where I can get info on later medieval nails, ideally small ones?

JOhn T?

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:31 pm
by Wim-Jaap
look at the end of childrens fingers??

Nah sorry too easy...

I bought nails from a german trader, but can't think of his name.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

greenthings Wim-Jaap

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:52 pm
by kate/bob
not sure if they sell them, but the smith in the Ferrars makes authenty nails. I seem to remember Gerry Burrows selling some at some point as well.

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:06 pm
by Chickun
well you still have a handful of my 2" ones bought at the last market :wink:

are you after info or a supplier? re: info I suspect local museum/archeological service will have a ton of them knocking about

Re: Nails

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:11 pm
by John Waller
gregory23b wrote:Anyone know where I can get info on later medieval nails, ideally small ones?

JOhn T?
For wood or metal? Armourer's rivets were known as arming nails.

My chum Steve Durnford sold me some rose headed machine made medieval style nails a while back.

http://www.darzet.com/IRON/pg010.html

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:50 pm
by gregory23b
For wood, I want to know what small nails look like, I have some 1 inch rose head and some other sizes, but want actual pics of the real thing, alongf theline of tack sized and possibly smaller.

but thnaks so far for the info, all useful.

and yes chickun, they are still in the jar waiting for their daddy

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:22 pm
by Merlon.
Would it be worth contacting the conservation staff at the V&A in London?

They propbably get the most exposure to artifacts which would contain nails of the type in question

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:09 pm
by Dave B
IIRC there's a factory up in Jockland that makes just about all the rosehead nails (machine and hand) used in period house restoration.

They actualy have some sort of a nail museum, perhaps you could contact them.

Haven't got time to google it now, but should be easy to find.

Also 'three fingered Jerry' gave me quite a speel about medieval nails once, he might have some sources.

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:18 pm
by Phil the Grips
http://www.woodrecycling.org.uk/
That's my old work. They get C18th timbers through occasionally and are happy to salvage what nails they can and sell them on (I know- it used to be me that would spend a day each week rescuing them!), usually about 1/2" long and with a "tack" type head.

Not as old as C15th but they have character and are handmade.

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:25 pm
by gregory23b
Cheers guys, I am on one of my quests for a nitty bitty thing, the nails will be on show, or at least not hidden so need to get the right thing, the repro small rose heads I have are ok but not fine enough for the tacking that I need to do.

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:43 pm
by davetmoneyer
Hi
as any member of the public will tell you they didnt have nails then
(Thats why they Gaffa taped Christ to the Cross)

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:55 pm
by Madhamish
Dave B wrote:IIRC there's a factory up in Jockland that makes just about all the rosehead nails (machine and hand) used in period house restoration.

They actualy have some sort of a nail museum, perhaps you could contact them.
This one possibly ?
http://www.glasgowsteelnail.com/

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:41 pm
by Laffin Jon Terris
Have a chat with Rick Lewis Jorge.

He gave me a bag of small rose head nails for helping him with a talk last year, I'll measure them up tomorrow (they're at the workshop I'm afraid).

Otherwise will carpet tacks do the job? (blued, round, flat head types)

Sorry I can't be more help mate.

Jon.

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:36 pm
by Dave B
Madhamish wrote:
This one possibly ?
http://www.glasgowsteelnail.com/
That's the fella. loads of information on there, albeit not all well organised. They made the brass nails for 'the mathew'

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:54 pm
by gregory23b
I might talk to Rick, but I think he gets the rose heads at massive size for his jobbies. But good point.

Tacks may well do, but don't want to assume.

Glasgow steel nail is the maker of the ones I already have, the stamp cut ones look very familiar.

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:36 pm
by Laffin Jon Terris
I know he had some smaller rose heads (I'm fairly sure he didn't give me all of them!)

If not, I still have some if thats what you're after.

I would go for the tacks though- not that I have any real knowledge on the subject - as a generic nail/tack they must be pretty close to the real thing. (and too be honest you're scoring incredibly high on the "anal chart" if they're not close enough! :lol:

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:22 am
by gregory23b
"(and too be honest you're scoring incredibly high on the "anal chart" if they're not close enough! "

No more so than using the right wood for boxes, or the correct joints, or whatever. I really wish there was an icon for a tongue sticking out because I would use it, so I will resort to playgound tactics -- nyer nyer

If they are the same then I will use them of course, but because they will be visible for a time I would like it right, call me anal if you will, I care not for such jibes and brickbats, water off a duck's wossname - gets voodoo doll ready.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:49 am
by Laffin Jon Terris
:P Jorge, :P

No offense intended Jorge, I can be just as bad!

Go for the tacks, they come in blued or plain steel, in various lengths and have non-uniform, non-round heads so they won't look glaringly modern on your master-piece!

I hope you're planning to use proper pins in that voodoo doll!

:P

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:24 am
by Dave B
The finish on tacks is wrong though. The shape generaly looks like a handmade nail, but the blued finish is chemical and I think the plain finish is sheradised (sp)

I think you would have to remove the finish, perhaps by heating to red hot and dropping in oil to black them properly?. or just blowtorching the finish off then cleaning them?

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:47 am
by gregory23b
I was not offended Jon as you well know ;-)

Oh and know you can be just as bad, hence my comment re wood, you great noon.

Proper pins believe it or not are really easy to come by, especially if you work with a guy that makes them and needles even.

The doll will be made from hand spun and wonven linen, stuffed with tow, nyer nyer.

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:19 pm
by guthrie
Dave B and Mad Hamish- somewhere else to find out about. Nailmaking has been one of these things I'd like to know how they did. I shall be reading with abandon.

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:26 pm
by gregory23b
Was at Rick's today and he is going to do some research for me, he has an idea of what I seek.

mmm

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:12 am
by Ben_Fletcher
try Tod:

http://www.traditionalmaterials.co.uk/

Rose headed nails - Soft iron nails with traditional heads for traditional carpentry, building and fabrication, sold in bags of 50 and in 1" to 2" as standard. Other lengths can be supplied on request.

1" (25mm) £2.50/50.

1.5" (38mm) £5.00/50.

2" (50mm) £9.00/50

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:16 am
by gregory23b
I already have nails from Tod, they are, I think the same as the ones from the Scottish factory, as there is only the one place in the UK that makes them, Tod doesn't do them any smaller or finer.

It appears I might be after lath nails or similar, Rick is gpoing to track down medieval lath nails as as a reference for either reproduction or to see how they resemble any modern nail.