Military Orders

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Brother-Knight
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Military Orders

Post by Brother-Knight »

Hey all,

I'm a bit of a fanatic when it comes to all things templar and hospitaller (and to a lesser extent the teutonics and knights of santiago de compostella).

Whilst I've only just got into re-enactment and intend to follow some sound advice and build up my kit gradually; I was wondering if anyone knows where to obtain military order-esque clothing. Some have suggested making it myself, but sadly I am a mong, and feel this could lead to hospital time!!

GDFB offer some good items, but the period is a little too late (Hospitallers didn't adopt surcoats until 1265 +). If the worst comes to the worst templates will do!! Cheers for your help!

BK
De laude novae militiae

Nigel
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Post by Nigel »

Pm d you
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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zauberdachs
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Post by zauberdachs »

Hey, which time period are you thinking of?
Do not be loath, diligent reader, to winnow my chaff, and lay up the wheat in the storehouse of your memory. For truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true - Nennius, 8th century

Vermin
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Post by Vermin »

What I've seen of Deb's stuff is lovely

http://paddedarmour.deborahloughcostumes.com/

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Brother-Knight
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Post by Brother-Knight »

Cheers guys :)

I'm looking roughly at the 1170-1220 period, but this is just a guide :)
De laude novae militiae

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Post by Zachos »

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jelayemprins
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Hospitallers

Post by jelayemprins »

Hi BK

Just a small correction of sorts...

The Hopitallers wore black mantles with white cross from 1120 - probably a plain latin cross. You rightly state that they adopted a military surcoat in 1248 - probably becuse the monastic habit was too encumbersome to fight in.

So easiest is a monastic habit over mail with plain white cross on breast - over heart or centrally.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13717466@N08/?saved=1
shows 2 friends in action with such mantles.
'making history happen'
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BrendanGrif
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Post by BrendanGrif »

Hey, would you have any guidelines on how those mantles are constructed?
-They seem to be oversized long tunics without Gores (I cannot see any seams in the photos) - is this correct?

I have never been able to get my head around how they work over maille.

Brendan

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Brother Ranulf
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Post by Brother Ranulf »

"oversized long tunics" - an exact description of a monastic habit, which is precisely what a "cappa" is - definitely not a "mantle", which is another term for cloak. I know the person who made these costumes and gores are a regular feature of that person's work (can't say definitely that these particular examples include gores but i wouldn't be surprised). My own Benedictine habit, made by the same person, has gores at each side.

All religious orders were first and foremost just that, religious orders. The military aspect should always have been a secondary concern. In the 12th century this should have meant wearing a monastic habit and having the head shaved in the Roman tonsure, but we know for certain that the Templars and Hospitallers ignored the tonsure rule.
Brother Ranulf

"Patres nostri et nos hanc insulam in brevi edomuimus in brevi nostris subdidimus legibus, nostris obsequiis mancipavimus" - Walter Espec 1138

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Biro
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Post by Biro »

I based mine on Francis of Assisi's cowl:


http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-ca ... rancis.htm

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Brother Ranulf
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Post by Brother Ranulf »

St Francis was a mendicant, not a monastic. The military orders were initially outfitted as monastics, with a cappa worn as the main garment and there is no connection at all between the dress of the Franciscans and that of Templars or Hospitallers.
Brother Ranulf

"Patres nostri et nos hanc insulam in brevi edomuimus in brevi nostris subdidimus legibus, nostris obsequiis mancipavimus" - Walter Espec 1138

BrendanGrif
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Post by BrendanGrif »

So,
relatively loose fitting ankle length tunic with side gores (normal for period) = cappa.
Mental block melting. :) Now all I need to get my head around is the integrated hood!
Thanks!

Brendan

red razors
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Post by red razors »

brendan, hoods are very easy to do! :)

BrendanGrif
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Post by BrendanGrif »

yeah, I suppose. I have made lots of hoods, but never been happy with my efforts at making an integral hood. :(
Think that the neck opening or shape may be wrong. or both.

Brendan

MudAndMaggots
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Post by MudAndMaggots »

As an aside, are there any groups in the UK doing Military Orders?

I've been out of re-enactment/LH for a while and am considering this as an area to focus on - not so much to stomp around in chainmail, as to focus on the "home front": administration, recruitment, ideology, the alien (yet distrurbingly relevant) logic behind it all.

Anyone already doing this?

Nigel
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Post by Nigel »

yes
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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