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Whose side are you on?

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:08 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Thinking again about political alleigences during the WOTR. I wondered if the lure/romance of the underdog effected how the period is re-enacted or portrayed? At Blore there seemed to be a lot more Yorkists than Lancastrains, especially given the fact that they were outnumbered in the real battle. The Black Maunch are Yorkists ( Sir John was the brother in law of William Hastings) but not Ricardian (the evidence seems to suggest that Sir John found lots of excuses as to why he was unable to leave the Calais Marches and join Richard at court). I plan on joining the Woodvilles soon as they are closer to home for me so I can be Lancastrian up to 1461, Yorkist up to 1483 and Tudor from then on.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:54 pm
by DeviantShrub
We don't re-enact WOTR. One of the things holding us back is the issue of sides: one of us is a staunch Yorkist, the other a long-term Lancastrian.

I swear it's the only issue in the entire relationship on which we disagree!

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:57 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
You do realise that they're all dead. :D

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:34 pm
by Skevmeister
No their bloody not.... Its still alive today. Only bloody southerners think that its all over.

Skev

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:34 pm
by gregory23b
Yeah, too many porkists, underdogs my hairy yellow donkey.

Did you happen to hear some bloke on Gardners' question time the other week, who in his infinite mentioned the war between Lancashire and Yorkshire :roll: and he was supposedly educated. They were in York, that notable Lancastrian stronghold (sometimes).

My mother in law was also under the impression that the WOTR wsas between the two counties :roll:

meh.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:01 pm
by Colin Middleton
Everyone is. It's because the idea of dutchys is pretty much vanished.

We fight as Yorkists. As far as I know, John Howard (who's men we represent) was stubornly loyal to his lord, be that the Mowbrays or later Kings Edward and Richard. His son Thomas was reputadly as stuborn, refusing to escape from prison because 'the King told him to be there', King Henry VII that is. He then went on to become one of Henry VIII's most trusted men.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:24 pm
by Allan Harley
Who-ever pays me the most :lol:

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm
by Wim-Jaap
depends who is on the left side and who is on the right side!

greenthings Wim-Jaap

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:49 pm
by Jim Smith
Ferrers? Yorkist until death, or at least Bosworth anyway...

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:01 pm
by Mad Mab
Being a Lancashire lad my father would be rolling in his grave if he had seen me watercarrying for the Yorkists. (At least he would be if we hadn't cremated him!). So, given the choice, Lancastrian.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:58 pm
by Philippa de Vere
Have a slight problem in that my late Father-in-Law was from York, but I am a member of a Lancastrian group. I tend to keep very quiet on the subject!!

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:14 pm
by lidimy
Lancaster, but only because it's the only way I can do Medieval conscience free...

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:21 pm
by Handbag
Lancaster!! (and im a southerner skev)

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:33 pm
by gregory23b
Er, lancashire was as much Yorkist as Yorkshire was Lancastrian, nothign to do with the counties in any way. Why does that myth persist?

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:41 pm
by lidimy
Very well....

I'm a red, then, but not in the modern sense.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:51 pm
by Handbag
gregory23b wrote:Er, lancashire was as much Yorkist as Yorkshire was Lancastrian, nothign to do with the counties in any way. Why does that myth persist?
yeah i thought that. i reenact late 14th century and historically my character lived near York but her husband was most definitely lancastrian (banneret to john of gaunt) and this tradition continued down the line and most of the male descendants died fighting for Lancaster.

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:38 pm
by Hinny Annie
Lancastrian, we are in the Clifford Household. We usually portray John (the butcher) Clifford's motely crew.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:17 am
by gregory23b
It was the house of Lancaster/York, not the provinces, bleeding northerners, not got anything better to do. :twisted: :twisted:

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:02 am
by Grymm
Man of Bucks me not one of Buckinghams men, under the strangled duck not the knot, usually fought for Lancaster way back when and as they were scripted to lose most times and the yorkist were mostly made up of immortals(Its all a plot by those damn'd white bores...not a spelling mistake btw) always got a better fight and a gloriously hammy death near the crowd line, you could smell the bacon fer miles.
I'm sure I've seen piccys of you in a sun in splendor tho Mr23b or was that just Fatty T and the rest of the White Co?

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:38 am
by Mick,M
WE ARE THE KINGS ORDINANCE
(but which king which? let him pay, feed and cloath me! then he is king)

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:08 am
by gregory23b
Ha, Grymm, with the 'New regime' of '88 we all donned the sunne in splendour, much better livery too.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
by TimB
I have generally played a Lancastrian, but that was entirely down to modern rather than historic circumstances.

When I started WotR re-enactment there seemed to be a lot of people playing die-hard Yorkists and most of the options for historic battles were Yorkist victories (which makes sense statistically), so they also got the people who feel they absolutely *have* to be on the winning side.

Since most of my group followed the 'you get a better fight if your're outnumbered' philosophy, we almost always fought as Lancastrian. Fourteen years on and it is partly a matter of habit, partly that our household is staunchly Lancastrian until 1471 (when the male heirs all die at Tewkesbury). After a few years the household was reborn under a new name when the female heir was married off to a Yorkist.

The personal feelings about what actually happened in the 15th Century don't necessarily come into it. One of our members considers herself to be a staunch Yorkist and advocate of Richard III, but that doesn't stop her re-enacting being a Lancastrian.

Much as I enjoy winding people up and having good-natured debates on the period, on the battlefield I'm just playing a part. How I'd actually have felt if I was living in the period is almost impossible to guess.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:59 pm
by Ellen Gethin
The myth of it being Lancashire vs Yorkshire (the counties) was alive and well when I was growing up in Lancashire. Basically it was "We're Lancashire and we have the Red Rose, and they're Yorkshire and they have the White Rose, and that makes us enemies."
Nothing about the actual history at all.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:09 pm
by BigM
A Woodville so any side that will allow brazen social climbing, and an opportunity to save ones skin when it all goes t*ts up :wink:

Nice doing both, but feel predominantly Yorkist myself.

Will be good to see you in Woodvilles Marcus! :D

M

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:19 pm
by Mark Griffin
A client, a client!

have I sent my bacs details my lord...?

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:25 pm
by Attilla the Bun
The Duke of Lancaster's on the Throne
The Duke of York's ......Andy!

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:59 pm
by Mark Griffin
Well he obviously can't kick off but I bet Beatrice and Eugenie are hoarding arms like craz.

I'll be right behind them when the day comes.

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:05 am
by Rod Walker
Yorkist, in particular Ricardian.

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:23 am
by wibble puppy
18 months of glory then death, typical jouster Rod....!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:34 pm
by Rod Walker
wibble puppy wrote:18 months of glory then death, typical jouster Rod....!
LMAO :lol: You owe me a new keyboard, this one is all covered in coffee.